These and Those for Evidence and Groups

By the end of this lesson, you will be able to...

• Point to one visible plural group of logs, metrics, requests, or changes with these or those.

• Distinguish a demonstrative before a noun from one that stands alone.

• Restore the group noun when several collections could be the target.

Idea in one sentence: A plural demonstrative is useful only while the reader can see which collection it points to.

Core Insight

Imagine a debugging session with evidence from two application versions. A teammate pastes a group of log lines from the current terminal and says:

These logs come from the old version.

The word these points to the visible group of logs. It does not identify one log line. The plural noun logs tells the reader what the group contains.

Now compare:

Those logs came from the previous deployment.

Those can point to another group that was discussed earlier or is being contrasted with the current group. The important difference is not physical distance alone. The writer is directing attention to a different collection.

A demonstrative can also stand alone:

These are from the old version.

This is acceptable only when the surrounding context makes the group obvious. If the paragraph contains logs, metrics, requests, and screenshots, these has too many possible targets. Restore the noun:

These metrics are from the old version.

The lesson is a practice in visual attention. Before using these or those, notice which group is on the page, in the terminal, or in the current discussion. Then decide whether the group noun can safely disappear.

The Small Situation: Two Evidence Collections

A debugging note contains four collections:

• logs from version 12;
• metrics from version 13;
• failed requests from the gateway;
• screenshots from a browser test.

The writer wants to compare the first two collections. An explicit note is easy to audit:

The version 12 logs contain timeout messages. The version 13 metrics show a latency increase.

A more natural note can point to the collections:

These logs contain timeout messages. Those metrics show a latency increase.

The demonstratives work because each one appears with its group noun. The reader does not need to guess whether these means logs or metrics.

If the team is looking at one collection in the terminal, the writer can use a standalone form:

These are the timeout messages from version 12.

The noun messages still appears after the demonstrative, so the group remains visible. A riskier version is:

These are worse.

What is worse: the logs, the metrics, the requests, or the screenshots? The evaluation has no visible target. Add the group noun or restate the claim:

These timeout messages are worse than the messages from version 11.

The smallest clear addition is usually the noun that names the collection.

Look First: Observe the Group Before Naming It

This lesson uses a creative practice: point, name, compare, and revise.

Observe

Look at the evidence in front of the reader. Are there one or several collections? Are they from the same version, or do they represent different states?

Name

Choose the group noun: logs, metrics, requests, traces, alerts, or screenshots. A noun gives the demonstrative a visible anchor.

Compare

Use these for the group currently under attention and those for another group being contrasted or recalled:

These traces show the new path. Those traces show the old path.

The contrast comes from the discussion. It is not a universal rule that these must be physically near the writer or those must be far away.

Revise

Remove the noun once and ask whether another collection could fit:

These show the new path. Those show the old path.

If the answer is yes, restore the noun:

These traces show the new path. Those traces show the old path.

The practice is successful when the reader can point to the intended collection without rereading the whole incident.

The Naive Idea: These Means Near and Those Means Far

A beginner may learn a physical rule:

Use these for nearby things and those for distant things.

Physical distance can help in a room, but technical writing usually has discourse distance. A log group can be “near” because it is the current topic, while an earlier group is “far” because it belongs to a previous deployment.

Compare:

These metrics are from the canary region. Those metrics are from production.

The two dashboards may be open side by side. These and those organize the comparison, not the pixels on the screen.

The naive rule also ignores scope. These logs is a noun phrase. These are noisy is a standalone reference to a group. If the group is not visible, the reader cannot recover it from distance.

The Principle: Group, Contrast, and Anchor

Use three checks:

1. Group: What plural collection is being referenced?
2. Contrast: Is another collection being compared, recalled, or excluded?
3. Anchor: Does the noun remain visible if a reader joins the discussion late?

Plain meaning:

These and those say, “Look at this group,” but the group must be identifiable.

Technical name:

They are plural demonstratives. Before a noun, they are demonstrative determiners. Standing alone, they are demonstrative pronouns referring to a known group or situation.

The group noun controls the number:

These logs are useful.

Those metrics are stale.

Do not use a singular demonstrative for a plural collection:

This logs are useful. ✗

If the target is one log line, use a singular noun:

This log is useful.

The form should match both the collection and the reader’s view of it.

A Worked Trace: Version Comparison

Start with this note:

The old release produced timeout logs and high-latency metrics. The new release produced fewer timeout logs but more error requests. These are concerning, while those are acceptable.

Map the groups:

The writer probably means that the new error requests are concerning while the old timeout logs are acceptable. State that comparison:

The old release produced timeout logs and high-latency metrics. The new release produced fewer timeout logs but more error requests. These error requests are concerning, while those old timeout logs are acceptable.

The first These now has an explicit group noun. Those old timeout logs names the contrasting collection and its source. A shorter version is possible after the anchors are stable:

The old release produced timeout logs and high-latency metrics. The new release produced fewer timeout logs but more error requests. These error requests are concerning, while those are acceptable.

In the last clause, those can stand alone because the immediately preceding sentence has established the comparison and only one contrasting group is active. If metrics or screenshots enter the paragraph, repeat those timeout logs.

The naive failure is to delete every group noun:

The old release produced timeout logs and high-latency metrics. The new release produced fewer timeout logs but more error requests. These are concerning, while those are acceptable.

That sentence is shorter but hides the evidence that should drive the decision. The revision makes the collection visible before compressing it.

Where It Breaks

Several plural groups have the same shape

These are noisy, and those are noisy too.

If the paragraph contains logs and metrics, both groups can be noisy. Say:

These logs are noisy, and those metrics are noisy too.

The group changes inside a sentence

The dashboard shows the metrics and requests. These are stale.

Does these refer to metrics, requests, or both? Use the intended plural noun:

The dashboard shows the metrics and requests. These requests are stale.

The noun is hidden before the reader joins

We discussed the old and new traces yesterday. Those are better.

In a live conversation, those may be clear. In a written design note, a late reader may not know which traces are meant. Add the anchor:

Those new traces are easier to follow.

A claim is mistaken for a group

The metrics improved after the deploy. These are safer.

These suggests a plural collection, but the writer may mean the whole improvement claim. Write:

The improvement after the deploy is safer to roll out.

Or:

This means the canary is safer to expand.

Choose the demonstrative that matches the target: group or claim.

Two Active Checks

Check: Which sentence makes the evidence group visible?

A. These are better.

B. These metrics are better than the baseline metrics.

C. Those are better.

Think first, then reveal.

Answer: B. The noun metrics names the group, and baseline metrics provides the comparison. A and C need more context.

Check: Which form fits one log line rather than a collection?

A. These logs show a timeout.

B. This log shows a timeout.

C. Those logs shows a timeout.

Think first, then reveal.

Answer: B. One log line is singular, so this log matches the noun and verb.

Trade-offs and Limits

Plural demonstratives make evidence comparisons lighter. They let a writer point to the current group and contrast it with another group without repeating long version labels in every sentence.

The trade-off is compact pointing versus collection ambiguity. Removing logs, metrics, or requests saves words, but it can make a decision impossible to audit when several groups are active. Repeat the noun when the evidence affects an incident conclusion, rollout, or review decision.

These and those also do not prove that one collection is better, safer, or newer. They organize attention. The boundary signal is a reader asking “Which group?” or “Which version?” Restore the group noun and its source when that question matters.

Common Confusions

Confusion: those always means old or bad

Why it is tempting:

Writers often use those for a previous or criticized group.

Better model:

Those marks a contrasting or less immediate collection. The surrounding evidence determines whether it is old, good, bad, or simply different.

Confusion: a standalone these is always clear

Why it is tempting:

The speaker can see the group while writing.

Better model:

The reader may not share that view. Keep the noun when logs, metrics, requests, or claims compete.

Confusion: plural demonstratives can point to a singular claim

Why it is tempting:

Several words may describe one event.

Better model:

Use This for a singular whole claim: “The cache is stale. This explains the miss.” Use these for a plural group: “These metrics explain the miss.”

Transfer Practice: Repair a Debugging Note

Read this note:

The canary produced error logs and latency metrics. The stable release produced different error logs and normal latency metrics. These are worse than those, but these are useful.

Assume the intended facts are: the canary error logs are worse than the stable error logs; the canary latency metrics are useful for diagnosis; and the two collections must remain separate.

A model answer is:

The canary produced error logs and latency metrics. The stable release produced different error logs and normal latency metrics. The canary error logs are worse than the stable error logs, but the canary latency metrics are useful for diagnosis.

A compact answer can safely use one demonstrative after the groups are named:

The canary produced error logs and latency metrics. The stable release produced different error logs and normal latency metrics. These canary error logs are worse than those stable error logs, but these canary latency metrics are useful for diagnosis.

The rewrite succeeds if every these or those points to one visible collection, the comparison stays between matching error-log groups, and the useful metrics are not confused with the logs. If another evidence group enters, restore its noun immediately.

Resources

• [ARTICLE] Cambridge Dictionary: This, that, these and those
  • Focus: plural demonstratives, noun phrases, and reference to situations.
• [DOC] Microsoft Writing Style Guide: Voice and tone
  • Focus: concise evidence descriptions that remain clear for a late reader.
• [REFERENCE] Merriam-Webster: Demonstrative
  • Focus: how demonstratives point to a particular group, object, or idea.

Key Takeaways

• Use these and those for plural groups, not one singular object.
• Before a noun, the demonstrative narrows the group: these logs, those metrics.
• Standing alone, the demonstrative needs a visible group in the surrounding context.
• These and those organize contrast; they do not guarantee physical distance or evaluation.
• Restore the group noun and source when several collections could fit or when the evidence drives a decision.